discrimination laws

[watsgood]

im just going to show you some of the US laws (will come back to why US) regarding animals, non human.

the reason for US laws is, along with the UK (both of which I have thoroughly been through before) they are the highest in the world. so you're about to see the welfare regulations which are the 'best' in the world, and as they are the US they are directly applicable to many members of this forum, who are from the US.

- this is just a snippet. i have compiled in alot of detail the UK laws, and this is only as i say a snippet of the US'. all taken from the USDA directly.

to start:

Animal means any live or dead dog, cat, nonhuman primate, guinea
pig, hamster, rabbit, or any other warmblooded animal, which is being
used, or is intended for use for research, teaching, testing,
experimentation, or exhibition purposes, or as a pet. This term
excludes: Birds, rats of the genus Rattus and mice of the genus Mus bred
for use in research, and horses not used for research purposes and other
farm animals, such as, but not limited to livestock or poultry, used or
intended for use as food or fiber, or livestock or poultry used or
intended for use for improving animal nutrition, breeding, management,
or production efficiency, or for improving the quality of food or fiber.
With respect to a dog, the term means all dogs, including those used for
hunting, security, or breeding purposes.
 

what this effectively means is that a welfare act protecting animals from this or that, neednt protect the vast majority of animals which are in need of that protection, namely: livestock. this is akin to saying, 'all humans have protection from a, b, c. However, manual laborours are not 'humans' , they are...' and as such the later group will be under a separate (as is the case with non human animals) act which allows treatment which otherwise they would be protected from, ie mutations without anaesthetic, starvation to increase yield (egg farming) and so on.

Deprivation of food or water shall not be used to train, work,
or otherwise handle animals; Provided, however, That the short-term
withholding of food or water from animals by exhibitors is allowed by
these regulations as long as each of the animals affected receives its
full dietary and nutrition requirements each day.

this is somewhat similar to the slaughter regulations which state, all slaughter must comply with x y z, except ritual (religious) slaughter which is allowed to get away with not stunning them, because the practice of ancient mythology is more important than the welfare of living creatures.

Young or immature animals shall not be exposed to rough or
excessive public handling or exhibited for periods of time which would
be detrimental to their health or well-being.

nothing specific. they could have put a full stop after 'exhibited'. presumably young animals can be exposed to 'rough or excessive public handling' for a certain period of time.

Subpart F--Specifications for the Humane Handling, Care, Treatment, and
 Transportation of Warmblooded Animals Other Than Dogs, Cats, Rabbits,
      Hamsters, Guinea Pigs, Nonhuman Primates, and Marine Mammals
 
Sec. 3.128  Space requirements.

    Enclosures shall be constructed and maintained so as to provide
sufficient space to allow each animal to make normal postural and social
adjustments with adequate freedom of movement. Inadequate space may be
indicated by evidence of malnutrition, poor condition, debility, stress,
or abnormal behavior patterns.

the space requirements is strange to me. for example , sow gestation crates are perfectly legal in the US in all but two states. i could easily reference any number of animal rights sites for to show you what they are but in the interest of non bias this is the wiki article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestation_crates

additionally battery cages for egg laying hens are also legal in (i believe all of) the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_cages#Animal_welfare

having worked with pigs and lived with chickens (roaming around the place i was living) , i can tell you these two confinemtns do NOT comply even remotely with the states regulations. which makes you wonder just how seriously these regulations should be taken at all.

i cant even imagine what it would do to you mentally to be trapped in a space like a gestation crate or battery cage for months on end. im a human so i ant presume to know, however it's been shown that non human animals in captivity do show signs of madness and boredom. not to mention physically.

the following regulation is long so im picking relevant bits

Subpart F--Specifications for the Humane Handling, Care, Treatment, and
 Transportation of Warmblooded Animals Other Than Dogs, Cats, Rabbits,
      Hamsters, Guinea Pigs, Nonhuman Primates, and Marine Mammals

When transported
by air, live animals shall be visually observed by the carrier as
frequently as circumstances may dictate, but not less than once every 4
hours, if the animal cargo space is accessible during flight. If the
animal cargo space is not accessible during flight, the carrier shall
visually observe the live animals whenever loaded and unloaded and
whenever the animal cargo space is otherwise accessible to assure that
they are receiving sufficient air for normal breathing, their ambient
temperatures are within the prescribed limits, all other applicable
standards are being complied with and to determine whether any such live
animals are in obvious physical distress.

(they can be loaded onto a plane and , legally, not be checked until unloading. during truck transportation they have to be checked at least once every 4 hours)

-for the same group of animals:

All live animals shall be offered potable water within 4 hours
prior to being transported in commerce. Dealers, exhibitors, research
facilities and operators of auction sales shall provide potable water to
all live animals transported in their own primary conveyance at least
every 12 hours after such transportation is initiated, and carriers and
intermediate handlers shall provide potable water to all live animals at
least every 12 hours after acceptance for transportation in commerce: Provided, however, That except as directed by hibernation, veterinary
treatment or other professionally accepted practices, those live animals
which, by common accepted practices, require watering more frequently shall be so watered.

water must be offered at least every TWELVE hours, after a possible 4 hour break prior to transit beginning. animals in transit can then, in any weather conditions be denied water for 16 hours legally

Each live animal shall be fed at least once in each 24 hour
period, except as directed by hibernation, veterinary treatment, normal
fasts, or other professionally accepted practices. Those live animals
which, by common accepted practice, require feeding more frequently
shall be so fed.

each animal must be fed at least, only ONCE in a 24 hour period. pure carnivores such as cats may be suited to eating once in 24hrs, or indeed longer, but grazing animals such as livestock, the vast majority which are subject to this transportation must only be fed ONCE in 24 hrs, "EXCEPT AS DIRECTED BY...OTHER PROFESSIONALLY ACCEPTED PRACTICES".

practices such as dumping 'downed' animals perhaps

this is just the tip of the iceburg. the law also allows as i state before, that mutations (ear clipping, tail docking, de-beaking of birds, castration etc) can be performed without anaesthetic, and much much more of the same nonsense. these are the best regulations in the world.

[San Patricio]

White people care more about animals than they do about Black people

[griffo05]

White people care more about animals than they do about Black people

any other race not being white primarily concerns them sadly  but  the ppl are putting them in their job and complaining about their job so chose someone else

[Sol3]

White people care more about animals than they do about Black people

white ppl only care about them selfs.
j/k ...... or am I?

[Bob]

Are aboriginals below animals?

Although Pine Ridge is the eighth largest reservation in the United States, it is the poorest reservation. It is probably easily comparable to the least developed countries of the Third World. Unemployment on the Reservation hovers around 35% and 61% live below the Federal poverty level.[1] Adolescent suicide is four times the national average. Many of the families have no electricity, telephone, running water, or sewer. Many families use wood stoves to heat their homes. The population on Pine Ridge has among the shortest life expectancies of any group in the Western Hemisphere: approximately 47 years for males and in the low 50s for females. The infant mortality rate is five times the United States national average. Link

Australian Aboriginals seem to "complain" as well:

In 2002 data collected on health status reported that Indigenous Australians were twice as likely as non-indigenous people to report their health as fair/poor and one-and-a-half times more likely to have a disability or long-term health condition (after adjusting for demographic structures).[19] In 1996-2001, the life expectancy of an Indigenous Australian was 59.4 years for males and, in 2004-05, 65.0 years for females[23], approximately 17 years lower than the Australian average.[19] Link

Yes, this is a US-only problem...

Poverty in Toronto is highly racialized, and the economic gap between members of European and non-European ethno-racial groups has been increasing over the last 30 years, a new study reveals.
[...]
Extreme poverty is a daily reality for more than half of the members of the Bangladeshi, Somali, Afghan, and Ethiopian ethno-racial groups, the 2001 census reveals. Their family incomes fell below Statistic’s Canada’s "low income cut-off" – the most commonly used standard for measuring poverty in Canada. Three groups faced poverty rates of between 40 and 50 per cent, and 14 other groups, five of them African and including Aboriginals, had poverty rates of between 30 and 40 per cent. Link

Man, I love racist whites. This disparity is definitely due to cognitive deficiency on the side of those colour...

And Sol3, I don't how to disagree with you.

[watsgood]

Are aboriginals below animals?

aborigonals are animals

dont hijack this thread

[San Patricio]

aborigonals are animals

dont hijack this thread

*Watches credibility float away at a heavy speed*

[Drizzle]

aborigonals are animals

dont hijack this thread

What?

[watsgood]

newsflash im also an animal.

humans are actually animals, even if religion asserts otherwise.

this is off topic. back to the point of the thread...

[Drizzle]

Okay. Then lets get technical for you, white people care more about other species (their domesticated companions) than the darker members of their own species.

[griffo05]

Okay. Then lets get technical for you, white people care more about other species (their domesticated companions) than the darker members of their own species.

they'll be crying when their damn kitty dies over family

[watsgood]

that is just your assertion and is irellavant to the topic of this thread.

i happen to care about humans regardless of the colour of their skin, and non humans, thinking neither is 'above' the other.

the reason i stress the opression of non human animals is,

- not many do
- it is so firmly imbedded in human culture i feel it should be brought up by people who care about it, as often as possible, as many people barely even consider it
- more than 50 billion non human animals are bred each year for farming/slaughter.

and the fact that the interest of humans is guarunteed by the charter of human rights. the disparity between minorities and opressed humans and the safer classes has improved HUGELY in recent years, if you look to the womens and civil rights movements, and will continue to do so.

the opression of non human animals however is set only to worsen dramatically. as the average wealth of countries like india and china increases, as is happening quickly, so does the consumption of meat. meaning the number of animals used in farming is set to increase, and is ever increasing. the demand for more and more meat inevitably means development/implementation of ever more effecient/cheap methods of production - manufacture of animals, which is why factory farming began in the first place.

so, all in all it wont be long before a trillion animals are killed each year , out of sight and out of mind. so for the few years im around ill make it my business to raise the issue as loudly and as often as possible.

because there ISNT an international charter of animal rights protecting them from exploitation, as i show in my original post the law does the very opposite: provide the minimal welfare possible to maintain the opression and make it profitable.

[Drizzle]

I understand that cheap, unclean mass production of animals is dangerous. It will cause more epidemics.

But, if in my religion I ritualistically slaughter a rooster, I should go to jail?...

[watsgood]

its not just that its dangerous it means the welfare of the animals is reduced to nil...the method most chickens for example are killed by now is being hung up by their legs on a conveyor belt and stunned/killed by machines.

and as to religion, jail? i dunno about that. i just think religion should have to conform to what is humane. in the uk and us slaughter requires animals are stunned, so they are rendered insensetive to pain before the actual killing takes place. religious slaughter requires animals not be stunned before being killed. i dont see why the religioun should have leeway, if my religion commanded me to kill other humans, i wouldnt be allowed to.

[Bob]

Wow...

Passive racism 101: Only associate whiteness with progress and regression with human behaviour.

The idea somehow we're going to deal with animal oppression when the vast majority face racial oppression is dysfunctional thinking at best. Even the nations you bring up like China and India were severely hit by Western imperialism. The effect of the Opium War still hit China hard and is what ultimately led to the rise of the brutal PRC regime in China.

Even today, the West exploits the East by introducing their corporations who are aided by tyrannical banks: IMF and WB. Most in these nations do not even receive remuneration sufficient for basic level. Hundreds of millions live with less than a $1 a day, and probably the largest economic group earns around $2/ day. To somehow expect populations that have gone through brutal colonialism and now, Western neo-colonialism to embrace animal rights is downright ludicrous.

Domestic and international institutions of power need to be democratized and then you could blame those of colour for promoting a multi-level disparity. Indians, Mexicans or even African-Americans have very little say in the domestic and international sphere. Our options given is promote white power or face the consequences. It is for this reason much of the third world is aiming to go nuclear.

[watsgood]

someone please delete bob's reply he is deliberately hijacking the thread

[Drizzle]

So because he doesn't agree he is "hijacking"?

[fLow]

So because he doesn't agree he is "hijacking"?

It looks as if, if something doesn't provide intellectual satisfaction, that must be wiped out, erased.

[Drizzle]

You have to realize that not everyone is going to agree with what you post. How is it off topic?

[watsgood]

his first reply in my thread about the united states department of agriculture regulations concerning animal welfare, was about aborigonals in australia. his 2nd is about racism and colonialism.

and the topic of the thread has been forgotten. thats why it should be deleted so we can get back to discussing WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT.

feel free to disagree with my points, but dont just change the topic