Complaints/Constructive Criticism/Suggestions for Immortal Technique

[marcos]

Tech is a hustla, i don't think selling wine is a bad idea, but then again, i don't think it will be popular, maybe among white rich folks. Not too many colored ppl drink wine. He needs to put books out, I kno he's always writing. I think his books will sell.

lol, tech is a hustler indeed.

[marcos]

How is having a wine revolutionary?

how is tech revolutionary?

[yuyaymimi]

Revolution? Haha, yeah... revolution is simply impossible in these times of dominant armed authorities. I gave up trying, I'm slowly giving up my "against the flow" mindset, I don't give a fuck no more. We have no voice, you're not heard without the power to control a medium and be able to finance promotion of that certain medium.

Change is slow, especially with the mercantilistic conservative power blocks keeping people tied up and caged.

sometimes i feel like that, this world is just TOO FUCKED UP to even try to fix a small portion of it,but then, I see my lil girl and I kno there's something that must be done, therefore, I go back to my senses.
=]

[Drizzle]

Wine / pisco / tequila / vodka / beer / champagne
Any of those is cool with me.

You know how much that has fucked up our people? If anything he should be against it.

"We came from the atmosphere, the physical trapped us here, then they gave us crack and beer."
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkBtpgcakdc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkBtpgcakdc</a>

[Godfather of Soul]

Being proactive doesn’t always mean getting dirty in the trenches of war. On a recent trip to his native Peru, Tech spent much of his time cultivating a farm he bought a few years back. On 300-plus acres of land he grows beans, corn, papayas, and other produce with the help of his family and an agricultural engineer. Aside from any financial gain, the purpose of the farm is to give the people more control of their own resources.
“Rather than doing what agribusiness would want me to do–which is to just to sell all my goods to America and then whatever doesn’t pass inspection sell it back to [my] own people–I’m trying to set a different standard down there,” he explains.
http://www.xlr8r.com/features/2008/06/immortal-technique-dead-serious

It could create jobs and income for people, a percentage can be donated to worthy organizations, etc.

Lol, that's great, he's a petty capitalist.  It's his family's land too, not land that he bought and gave to peasants in the area.  What does he do with the money he makes from the farm?  And 300 acres is a fairly sizable plot of land for just his family to be using.  Not that this is necessarily a bad thing, but this in's some revolutionary type of action.  It isn't a farming collective...it's merely him accumulating capital to buy land in his home country (something that the vast majority of the populace of Peru cannot do) and then not being a huge agri-business capitalist, just a small capitalist who acquired land to enrich himself and his family.  And it isn't necessarily doing ANYTHING, as the article itself says "IT COULD"...which explains a lot.  Tech COULD also drop the Middle Passage. 

And that wine reference is just weak.  Are you saying that we are "whining" in your implication?  My whole critique is that if you are going to claim to be a revolutionary, then you better really be one, and as free from contradiction as possible.  All of the criticism here is valid, and if you're going to just blow it off, then don't ask for it.

[yuyaymimi]

What does he do with the money he makes from the farm?  And 300 acres is a fairly sizable plot of land for just his family to be using.

Believe it or not; over 50% of the profits stays IN THE COUNTRY to help Indigenous people build schools and whatnot.

[Rebelle]

That is teh devil's poison!!!!

Wine is not the devil’s poison. It is neutral.
You can use it in a healthy manner or abuse it in unhealthy ways.
I know alcoholism ruins health, emotions, families, lives, etc.
Alcoholics should stay clear of all alcoholic beverages until they have recovered from their addiction.

In Sociology class one evening my teacher showed the class a video from the “Taboo”  series from National Geographic in which it showed a man pouring liquor, blood, and urine into a dug up decayed human skull and drinking from it. I consider that devilish. That was hard to watch, very disturbing, I became physically nauseous and showing that to a night class wasn’t very nice.

I don’t consider it devilish if you are drinking wine or other alcoholic beverages in moderation at a gathering with your family and friends (weddings, birthdays, dinners, etc.)

I just want to make it clear, I was suggesting planting a vineyard, selling some of the grapes as fruit and using some for making wine (save the grape leaves to make sarma).

If you don’t drink for religious, health, or other reasons, good for you.

[Rebelle]

Lol, that's great, he's a petty capitalist.  It's his family's land too, not land that he bought and gave to peasants in the area.  What does he do with the money he makes from the farm?  And 300 acres is a fairly sizable plot of land for just his family to be using.  Not that this is necessarily a bad thing, but this in's some revolutionary type of action.  It isn't a farming collective...it's merely him accumulating capital to buy land in his home country (something that the vast majority of the populace of Peru cannot do) and then not being a huge agri-business capitalist, just a small capitalist who acquired land to enrich himself and his family.  And it isn't necessarily doing ANYTHING, as the article itself says "IT COULD"...which explains a lot.  Tech COULD also drop the Middle Passage. 

And that wine reference is just weak.  Are you saying that we are "whining" in your implication?  My whole critique is that if you are going to claim to be a revolutionary, then you better really be one, and as free from contradiction as possible.  All of the criticism here is valid, and if you're going to just blow it off, then don't ask for it.

Revolutionary

All of us have the potential and opportunity to do revolutionary things in our lives (small, great, public, private, men, women, young, old, etc.).  I don’t expect perfection from anyone. In fact, no historical revolutionary is without their accusers, slanderers, opponents and enemies. I don’t dismiss people as not being revolutionary who are trying to do the best they can and in the process accomplishing considerable and undeniable good. If someone were to dismiss me or judge me for disappointing them in some way, it is more their problem than mine. They should be more concerned about what they are doing instead of what I am doing or not doing. We can’t judge people as if we were God.

What you call a petty capitalist could actually be a social entrepreneur. Social entrepreneurism is something  I am studying right now. More business owners are waking up to their responsibilities toward their employees and their communities and refusing to conduct their affairs the way it has been done by their predecessors in the past.

[Drizzle]

Wine is not the devil’s poison. It is neutral.
You can use it in a healthy manner or abuse it in unhealthy ways.
I know alcoholism ruins health, emotions, families, lives, etc.
Alcoholics should stay clear of all alcoholic beverages until they have recovered from their addiction.

In Sociology class one evening my teacher showed the class a video from the “Taboo”  series from National Geographic in which it showed a man pouring liquor, blood, and urine into a dug up decayed human skull and drinking from it. I consider that devilish. That was hard to watch, very disturbing, I became physically nauseous and showing that to a night class wasn’t very nice.

I don’t consider it devilish if you are drinking wine or other alcoholic beverages in moderation at a gathering with your family and friends (weddings, birthdays, dinners, etc.)

I just want to make it clear, I was suggesting planting a vineyard, selling some of the grapes as fruit and using some for making wine (save the grape leaves to make sarma).

If you don’t drink for religious, health, or other reasons, good for you.

Setut was being sarcastic. Hes kidding. My post however was serious. You suggested owning a brand of wine like Madonna. [sarcasm]That would accomplish a lot.[/sarcasm] lol. Growing food makes more sense to me if you are trying to help people. Not wine to be bottled and labled with your name sold to Americans.

[Rebelle]

It doesn't need to have his name on it just like the fruits and vegetables don't have his name on it. This could be sold everywhere just like the other produce (South America, Europe, etc.)

[Drizzle]

I think the term "revolutionary" is thrown around too much and has been watered down. So much to the point where people dare to call Obama "revolutionary". Tech said himself. In places like his homeland when people hear revolution noone is smiling cause they know someones gonna die.

And food is greater than alcohol if one is trying to be "revolutionary". Let the people sustain and feed themselvs. They don't need alcohol, they need food and water. And don't put the product of their work back into the system to be sold (like wine would be, unless you gonna use the money to buy guns). Let the land be for the people by the people.

[Victor]

With all of his influence on both the middle class and in the hood, if he were to take direct action and encourage his supporters to as well he could really get shit moving. When I saw that hardcore Rebel Army video promoting The 3rd World, and 'Project Green Light', I actually thought he was going to take initiative. I thought the 'green light' was going to be something revolutionary in a sense, but instead it was about a charity.

He's got the influence and funds, now he needs to use it to put toward a form of direct action.

[Sativa Indica]

Alcohol is the curse of humanity, along with Nicotine, i wish it would be criminilised to the extent where its users get drug testd and if found positive, FIRED for such usage. If they where to be caught in the act of consumption, of even just possesion, they should be charged, convicted, and be black listed for entry into countries round the world.

User, would also be flagged, by means of criminal records, so that its therefore becomes IMPOSSIBLE for them to enter ceratain industries, such as pharmacuetecals. shit even getting a part time job in a chemist is a NO NO. In the most extremist of cases, possesion of a single beer should be punishable with 5 years in jail and 10 lashes of the cane. a crate of beer....HANG 'EM.

Not to mention there should be a consistent governmental campaign of TV adverts, flyers in schools, talks and in general proganda campaign that works to not only demonize the drug itself, but also the users of said drug.

People who partake in the use of alcohol, should be look down upon, should be rejected by society and should be treated like children who have a problem. You should be viewed and treated as such to make your whole family ashamed at your usage.

 i would love to see the manufacturers and distributers of said DRUGS, be jailed for life, or just hanged once again.

If any one thnks theye can give me such crap ass study that shows how a glass of red is good for you heart, expect me to swallow that tripe as reason for it being good, i will quite happily bring the heat down, with an arsenal of facts and figures to show the standard effect of alcohol in communities, combined with individual stories.

[Victor]

That's hilarious.

[yuyaymimi]

I thought the 'green light' was going to be something revolutionary in a sense, but instead it was about a charity.

and that's wrong because...

Alcohol is the curse of humanity, along with Nicotine, i wish it would be criminilised to the extent where its users get drug testd and if found positive, FIRED for such usage. If they where to be caught in the act of consumption, of even just possesion, they should be charged, convicted, and be black listed for entry into countries round the world.

User, would also be flagged, by means of criminal records, so that its therefore becomes IMPOSSIBLE for them to enter ceratain industries, such as pharmacuetecals. shit even getting a part time job in a chemist is a NO NO. In the most extremist of cases, possesion of a single beer should be punishable with 5 years in jail and 10 lashes of the cane. a crate of beer....HANG 'EM.

Not to mention there should be a consistent governmental campaign of TV adverts, flyers in schools, talks and in general proganda campaign that works to not only demonize the drug itself, but also the users of said drug.

People who partake in the use of alcohol, should be look down upon, should be rejected by society and should be treated like children who have a problem. You should be viewed and treated as such to make your whole family ashamed at your usage.

 i would love to see the manufacturers and distributers of said DRUGS, be jailed for life, or just hanged once again.

If any one thnks theye can give me such crap ass study that shows how a glass of red is good for you heart, expect me to swallow that tripe as reason for it being good, i will quite happily bring the heat down, with an arsenal of facts and figures to show the standard effect of alcohol in communities, combined with individual stories.

she was just saying, it's not like it's going to happen, chong.
ay dios mio!
 

[Rebelle]

I can understand a person with your strong views against alcohol. I have had family and friends addicted to alcohol, weed and cocaine. It is heart breaking to witness their insane behavior and what becomes of their lives. You try to help them year after year after year but they can‘t be helped. They only end up hurting and using you. Then, they finally end up in prison, homeless, divorced, etc.

We know the warning against drinking alcohol by pregnant women.
Young people’s undeveloped brains can’t tolerate it’s effects very well.
Drinking on the job shouldn’t be allowed for obvious reasons.
Driving while intoxicated can be fatal.

But I think drinking in moderation and responsibly shouldn’t be banned or made illegal.
I think you should differentiate between regular occasional drinkers from alcoholics.
There is a difference from drinking to getting drunk. You shouldn’t cross that point.

Every food or drink affects us. Those people that are allergic to strawberries can’t expect others to be allergic as well and have it be made illegal because they suffered adverse symptoms from it. Strawberries make me feel drunk.

Oh damn, …. I take back my suggestion.  No wine, just unfermented grape juice.

[SetuT]

it showed a man pouring liquor, blood, and urine into a dug up decayed human skull and drinking from it.

Damn, what was that?

[Sativa Indica]

Rebbelle that rant was not against you personally. i simply dispise society's perception on drugs.

while weed is illegal, then my opinion remains steadfast.

[Godfather of Soul]

Revolutionary

All of us have the potential and opportunity to do revolutionary things in our lives (small, great, public, private, men, women, young, old, etc.).  I don’t expect perfection from anyone. In fact, no historical revolutionary is without their accusers, slanderers, opponents and enemies. I don’t dismiss people as not being revolutionary who are trying to do the best they can and in the process accomplishing considerable and undeniable good. If someone were to dismiss me or judge me for disappointing them in some way, it is more their problem than mine. They should be more concerned about what they are doing instead of what I am doing or not doing. We can’t judge people as if we were God.

What you call a petty capitalist could actually be a social entrepreneur. Social entrepreneurism is something  I am studying right now. More business owners are waking up to their responsibilities toward their employees and their communities and refusing to conduct their affairs the way it has been done by their predecessors in the past.

1.  I am only hard on those who call themselves revolutionary.  It is a title that I do not give to people lightly though they seem to take it lightly when they claim it.  It is the highest of honors and if you have it, I will be incredibly critical of you.

2.  A revolutionary does not seek to change the system, they seek to destroy it and replace it with something new and better.  Tech has not done anything that is really revolutionary when it comes to the music industry.  He isn't organizing rappers to own their own work top to bottom.  He isn't collectivizing anything.  He is just operating at the fringe of an existing system that he wants to reform.  He has faith, somewhat, in the system or he wouldn't participate in it, and he does participate in it.  He accepts levels of exploitation whenever he markets his product at a place like Amazon because they exploit their workers.  Tech has even admitted that he is willing to exploit his interns, by having them work for "experience" rather than actual pay or a share in the profits that they will inevitably help contribute to.  This is just a fact.

3.  There is no evidence that there is any sort of judgment when we die, none, so we as humans need to judge one another against the standards we set for ourselves.

4.  Just because someone is a friendly capitalist does not change where they stand in the order of things.  A social entrepreneur believes in capitalism and thinks that as long as the exploitation is minimal and friendly then it's okay.  Unless you are sharing the profits with the workers, relative to the amount of work put in, then you are a capitalist.  You can't have it both ways.  You can't be calling for socialist revolution (which is what Tech does) and extol the virtues of petite capitalism.  That's a significant contradiction.   I will say this again, the fact that we think business owners are responsible because they are nicer about the ways that they exploit their workers shows how ingrained the market and capitalism are in our lives.  If we were really about revolution, then the only time there would be an "owner" is if that person did ALL of the work for her/himself.  Otherwise, they are a capitalist unless they share ownership equally or relative to the output that individual workers put in.  Once the initial capital costs of starting a venture are recouped by the initial investors, they are not entitled to profits any more than the lowest worker unless they are doing significantly MORE work.  The justifications that we create for inequality are mindblowing, as are the justifications for maintaining our bourgeois lifestyles.  I am wiling to admit my own hypocrisies where they exist, and am not bold enough to say that my profession makes me a revolutionary, because it really doesn't because I am not out there literally overthrowing the existing system.

Don't get me wrong, I am a supporter of Tech.  However, I am not going to just toss the revolutionary mantle on him without any sort of critical framework.  That's part of Tech's problem, he lacks the critical framework in which to avoid hypocrisy and achieve his goals (which are still nebulous and largely undefined outside of rhetoric).  You can try to justify all of the things he does as revolutionary, but selling food at a market isn't really revolutionary, owning land isn't really revolutionary, owning a record company isn't revolutionary...none of it is if it is done, largely, within existing frameworks that support capitalism, no matter how small.


 

[Paradigmatic]

Yeah he should be his authentic self and pen some original material.