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Author Topic: New Zeitgeist Movie  (Read 1004 times)
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Morpheus
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« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2008, 08:54:46 PM »

The only way that would work is if private property, the state itself and capitalism were abolished. It sounds a lot like anarchist theories that have been around for well over 100 years. Not really a groundbreaking idea. In fact, I suggest you read Mutual Aid by Peter Kropotkin. It's much more elaborate than that guy who makes cool metallic buildings and shit.

Yeah it definitely calls for the abolition of all those things, but it isn't anarchism. An anarchist system would be individualist and unorganized, this is much more organized and cooperative. It seems to me as if they want to avoid having the idea labeled communism, but as far as I can tell that is exactly what it is. (going by the true meaning of communism, not just by comparing it to other systems that have labeled themselves communist)

"All resources become the common heritage of all of the inhabitants"
^^^abolition of private property & communal ownership

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Victor
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« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2008, 09:19:20 PM »

What makes you think that an anarchist system would be unorganized? Most are based on mutualism and organized trade unions. In communism people are molded into a compact mass and under authoritarian rule offer no individualism. There's a difference between being an egoist, and being self-conscious.

For a system to be successful it needs to recognize both collective and individual freedom. Ignoring one of these two phases just recreates a new form of slavery.
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« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2008, 10:07:25 PM »

I don't think communism has to be under authoritarian rule.
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« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2008, 02:38:07 AM »

Maybe our whole notion of 'individual' freedom is tainted. Maybe personal freedom can only be achieved through collective means. We might unknowingly operate as a group (the human species), if that was the case all our Western focus on individualism would be a mutation, an aberration.
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« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2008, 08:48:57 AM »

Quote
An anarchist system would be individualist and unorganized

Anarchism is possibly the most organized, with pervasive democracy all the way through. And about individualism, Bakunin, in his Anarchist Manifesto, said: "To be an anarchist, one must first be a socialist".
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Victor
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« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2008, 05:57:24 PM »

Maybe our whole notion of 'individual' freedom is tainted. Maybe personal freedom can only be achieved through collective means. We might unknowingly operate as a group (the human species), if that was the case all our Western focus on individualism would be a mutation, an aberration.
This definitely needs to be emphasized. What freedom would there be in a complete egoist society? I think that the significance of collective freedom - through equality - should be emphasized, but shouldn't negate freedom of the individual. Otherwise we end up in a concrete, compact mass where there is no room for individuality.
I don't think communism has to be under authoritarian rule.

Any form of the state imposes a ruling hierarchy, therefore is authoritarian.
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« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2008, 11:43:23 AM »

Any form of the state imposes a ruling hierarchy, therefore is authoritarian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Communism does NOT require that the state impose a ruling hierarchy. The Soviet Union was not true communism it was an authoritarian state calling itself communism. Communism and Authoritarianism are not synonymous as many people would have you believe. Like I said before, I am referring to communist ideology not specific historical regimes that have labeled themselves communist. It doesn't REQUIRE authoritarianism. In fact that really defeats the true purpose of the ideology. Which is why China and the Soviet Union weren't really communist.
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« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2008, 04:55:51 PM »

Also a communist state requires an industrially and technologically advanced society to operate in doesn't it? Wasn't that one of the prerequisites that Marx put down?
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Victor
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« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2008, 05:37:35 PM »

Also a communist state requires an industrially and technologically advanced society to operate in doesn't it? Wasn't that one of the prerequisites that Marx put down?
Yeah, that's why it failed in the agrarian countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Communism does NOT require that the state impose a ruling hierarchy. The Soviet Union was not true communism it was an authoritarian state calling itself communism. Communism and Authoritarianism are not synonymous as many people would have you believe. Like I said before, I am referring to communist ideology not specific historical regimes that have labeled themselves communist. It doesn't REQUIRE authoritarianism. In fact that really defeats the true purpose of the ideology. Which is why China and the Soviet Union weren't really communist.
I think that the theory puts an unreasonable amount of faith in the state, or party. The fact is that giving any party central power and control over resources will strengthen it and lead to corruption. Marx theorized that eventually the state would dissolve and ultimately create a stateless, socialist society. I think that it's pretty naive to assume that the state will peacefully surrender its powers as they constantly accumulate.

I think that Marx was well-intentioned, but had too much faith in giving an elite minority power and privilege.
Plus, he snitched on Mikhail Bakunin!
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« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2008, 05:39:12 PM »

"Plus, he snitched on Mikhail Bakunin!" elaborate!
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« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2008, 07:17:13 PM »

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bakunin/bakunintimeline.html

*June 1848 - Marx publishes false report that Bakunin is a Russian agent responsible for the arrest of Poles.

*September 7, 1872 - Bakunin expelled from the International at the Hague congress.

One of Marx's followers (Paul Lafargue) told the International that he created a secret elite organization that planned on becoming an "invisible dictatorship". In reality it was just a small group of militant individuals who were more for direct action and against political action, and demanded that the present states should be reduced to mere administrative functions of public services (I'm paraphrasing Murray Bookchin in The Spanish Anarchists: The Heroic Years). Even many anarchists opposed the idea of a secret organization and it was deterred from existing.

Marx also said that he was 'swindled' by Bakunin:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Xu25wuU2QOcC&dq=the+spanish+anarchists+bookchin&pg=PP1&ots=ahpzBFXL7l&sig=FfB5jP_GnZ9ij0KRKK_aJsCBiQs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA67,M1
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« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2008, 11:20:49 PM »

I haven't watched the movie, so my comments will not reflect the movie, but rather the flow of discussion so far.

1.  The Venus Project isn't new or revolutionary.  It espouses ideas that have existed for quite some time.  PARECON is a thoroughly developed economic system that advocates all of the things you are discussing Morpheus, without the conspiratorial framework of Zeitgeist.

2.  You have some misunderstandings of anarchism.  Omniarchy is what many people misconstrue anarchism to be.  The most successful anarchism is done through syndicalism and radical trade union organization.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho_syndicalism

3.  Communism is the end point in a process.  Before communism is established, there must be a dictatorship of the proletariat.  The dictatorship of the proletariat IS authoritarian.  Most historical "communist" states actually claimed to be "socialist republics" (see the USSR, PRC, DPRK) all existing at the proletarian dictatorship point in the communist process.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletariat
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« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2008, 08:00:24 PM »

"Communism is the end point in a process.  Before communism is established, there must be a dictatorship of the proletariat."

You mean according to Marxist ideology? I don't see how you can say there MUST be a dictatorship of the proletariat to before there can be a communist society? What about communes? I mean if people agreed upon the principles of the equality and communal ownership, a dictatorship wouldn't be necessary would it?

And yeah I know that idea of the Venus Project is based upon ideologies that have existed for plenty of time, but it's definitely still revolutionary. "When used as an adjective, revolutionary refers to something that has a major, sudden impact on society or on some aspect of human endeavor." And while it shares the fundamental principles of other ideas such as participatory economics, it isn't as if they don't have any original ideas. A lot of it is based on efficiency, technology, and renewable energy. You should definitely check out the movie.
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« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2008, 02:00:17 PM »

Zeitgeist Film maker Peter Joseph debates alex jones. . . Peter doesn't impress me and i dont trust the guy therefore i dont trust his film.

hxxp: www. youtube. com/watch?v=3Z_vOgY0-vU
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« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2008, 02:08:51 PM »

I agree with Peter for the most part.
Alex Jones is wack, he's not trust worthy.
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« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2008, 02:14:37 PM »

Quote from: yuyaymimi link=topic=8802. msg119546#msg119546 date=1224360531
I agree with Peter for the most part.
Alex Jones is wack, he's not trust worthy.
True. . . but i don't think Peter is trust worthy either.  i don't like his rhetoric
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« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2008, 04:24:00 PM »

I agree with Peter for the most part.
Alex Jones is wack, he's not trust worthy.

I would trust my two turtles before any of these fucks.
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« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2008, 04:27:16 PM »

I would trust my two turtles before any of these fucks.
did you hear them debating?...it was like listening to two fascist Homo-Erectuses talk about nonsense...
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« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2008, 04:39:10 PM »

Nah I didn't watch it for 2 reasons. I have heard Alex Jones before in old videos and it makes me dumber each time. As for the other guy...........His first movie took a lot of time out of my life which I could have used more productively, like masturbate or something.
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« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2008, 04:48:24 PM »

Nah I didn't watch it for 2 reasons. I have heard Alex Jones before in old videos and it makes me dumber each time. As for the other guy...........His first movie took a lot of time out of my life which I could have used more productively, like masturbate or something.
LMFAO! so..you dont believe there is a group of individuals trying to control the world and create a one world fascist gov't?
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Mobile-friendly version Immortal Technique Biography

Born Felipe Andres Coronel on the 19th of February 1978, hip-hop artist Immortal Technique is a controversial figure in the U.S. His songs speak of the need for social justice and equality among all races, with special emphasis on the people of color or Latin Americans, but they also cover topics such as the fight against unfair imprisonments or militarism and many others.

His biography is hence quite intriguing, to say the least, and, just like the best anti aging cream is probably going to be lingering over the shelves of all cosmetic stores for many years to come, Immortal Technique’s songs are going to remain hot, fresh and sought after for a really long time. Due to the fact they speak about topics which are to be considered taboos, his lyrics continue to be listened to with the exterior shutters down in most homes.

Immortal technique was born in Peru, in El Hospital Militar de Lima; several years later, his family moved to America in order to escape the harsh living conditions in Peru. Even though they could not afford to buy any terrain a vendre there, they managed to move to Harlem in the ‘80s. Immortal Technique went to Hunter High School, but just like a hip replacement recall is never of good omen, his grades and behavior weren’t any good during high school either. He was the school bully, he harassed other students and he was not afraid to get involved in scandals with drug dealers from around the area. And while his interactions with these drug dealers were not as numerous as used cars in Phoenix are, they still managed to leave an ugly mark on his biography.

Plus, his graffiti did not actually resemble any Dreamweaver templates, but he was famous for his controversial acts of vandalism. His violence against others almost got him expelled in 1996, but he somehow managed to finish high school and even attend college at Pennsylvania State University. This time, his college experience only lasted for two years; he was then charged and convicted and he was eventually imprisoned in Pennsylvania.

In prison, just like a SEO San Antonio company would focus on booting a web site’s ranking, Immortal Technique also focused on boosting his own social ranking. He began studying the policy of religious history, and, finding the inspiration he needed, he began putting his thoughts in lyrics. In 1999 he was paroled and, even though he was first considered some sort of Agen Bola, as no one had heard of him at first, he began to attend freestyle battles he started winning.

From there on, his career started to bloom, as he gave birth to albums such as “Revolutionary Vol 1” in 2002, “Revolutionary Vol 2” in 2004 and “Revolutionary Vol 3” in 2008. He also became a political activist and started to sing about political injustice (check out his opinion on the imprisonment of Mumia Abu-Jamal or the songs on George W. Bush). Despite of the fact that his albums might not have gotten the type of positive reviews African mango reviews are usually comprised of, this has not stopped him from getting involved in future projects, including an important film collaboration. He might not approve the work of the CNA Financial Corporation, but we all need to eat, right?




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The History and Growth of Rap Music

If you are a music enthusiast, then it is very likely that you have come across a genre of music called rap music. Rap music is area that has very clear distinguishing features most notably the rapid and rhythmic chanting of the lyrics perfectly timed to the beat and musical accompaniment that forms the base of the song. Rap music traces its roots to the development of the hiphop subculture which predominantly carries four complementary musical styles namely: rapping, dancing and in particular break dancing, scratching or more popularity known as DJing, and graffiti writing which others dub as vandalism. Another sub-element of this genre is beat-boxing which also features heavily in the repertoire of many rap artists. If you thought this was an easy musical genre to characterize, then you were poorly informed: consider, many research papers and doctoral dissertations have been written on the subject of rap music and its accompanying stylistic elements.

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At this very early stage of rap development, it was particularly tied to emcee-ing more than it was associated to any specific song. It predominantly tied songs together as an adlib in between. It was born out of the creative inputs of DJs who had to work with self-imposed musical constraints such as the 4/4 time beat and sampling or sequencing sections of other songs to create a smooth flow of uninterrupted musical stimuli. These were eventually married with electronic equipment such as drums and synthesizers, and ultimate melodies to give it that bite and identity. In a sense, rap music artists were basically like a video game designer who had to figure out each artistic component at every turn until it developed into a more coherent musical genre that became the rap music we know today.

The first recorded version of rap music came alive in the early 1980s when DJs decided to make records out of their freestyle MCing. This necessitated the documentation of song lyrics so they do not change during each and every rendition. The age of the stromanbieter for rap music was gone paving the way for more organized chaos. Still, the freestyle and improvisation element remained a part of many DJ interludes as the song goes through certain sections that did not require too much rap singing.

Likewise, as a consequence of the hip-hop records, the influence of rap began to spread faster than ever before. Artists no longer had to travel far to get their music heard. Now, records from New York City and Philadelphia can be reproduced and transported to cities like Los Angeles, New Orleans, Dallas, Baltimore, Washington, D.C., and Seattle among others for people to appreciate and enjoy. This was primarily the reason for rap music’s rapid growth. Like Christmas mini lights, cities formed the nodes through which rap music would spread to other parts of the country. From small beginnings to grand achievements, the birth certificate translation to true stardom took a matter of years for rap music to be realized. Since then, its take-off and rise has been meteoric.

In this regard, it is almost impossible to talk about rap music but not discuss the golden age of rap. This was the era from the late 1980s to the mid 1990s when rap grew at an astounding rate fueled by the creative contributions of many artists from all over the continental United States and in many parts of the world. The primary trait of the Golden Age or Rap was that it was an almost unbroken wave of transformative music with every single pushing the boundaries of the genre. From this age and in the succeeding Gansta Rap age came names like Run-D.M.C., Dr. Dre, Ice T, MC Hammer, The Wu-tang Clan, Snoop Dogg, and The Notorious B.I.G. among others. The list of names can virtually fill a Sharepoint Hive without any problems.

According to social studies published in 2005, teenagers and children are more familiar with hip-hop and rap music more than any other musical genre. Up to 65% of all children from ages 8 to 18 hear hip-hop music on a daily basis, making it their routinary keratin hair treatment session, almost to the point that it has become an intrinsic part of their lives. With the diversification of the genre to include the more stylish R&B or rhythm and blues, it is not difficult to explain how rap music has continued to pervade radio station, TV and movie song line-ups. The marriage of rap and jazz which paved the way for R&B is itself a phenomenon that warrants all sorts of social analysis.

And with its very strong following, it is safe to say that rap music is here to stay. Years from now, when you open your TV on a bright Saturday morning, there’s a big chance you would be watching the next stage in the evolution of rap music, and there’s an even better chance you would be dancing or singing to that tune.

Immortal Technique Rapper Biography

Immortal technique is the stage name for which rapper Felipe Andres Coronel is popularly known. His lyrics characterized by its unique mixture of socialist commentary of social class hierarchy, religion, wealth, poverty to contemporary issues touching on governmental and institutional racism. Perhaps you may have come across information about this popular icon as you undertake research for that mba online, or for whatever course you are undertaking, be it bachelors in criminal justice, performing arts degree, governance systems, online nurse practitioner programs, history, or any other course for which you have to do online research.

The rapper was born on the 19th day of February 1978 in Lima, Peru. During the internal conflicts that took place in their country at the time, his parents migrated to Harlem, New York. Probably, in the process of migration to the country, they may have used boats at least once in the journey. Like many American teenagers, the rapper was engaged in various acts against the law that led to his arrest several times, which in one his public interviews admitted that they were selfish and at best childish acts. After completing his incarceration terms, he took up a political science course in a bid to mend his seemingly torn life, while living with his father.

After completing his studies, he was not lucky enough to secure a job in his field of study owing to the unemployment situation prevailing in the entire United States. Like many American fresh graduates who take up it jobs, nursing jobs, waiter and nursing jobs among many other common jobs that may not necessarily need a specialist, he took up a working in a restaurant to earn a buck from which he could live on.

Through his deep interest in championing for equality between the elite and the under privileged in society, and being not a Mesothelioma Lawyer, the rapper begun his music career basing his lyrics on such issues as injustice, exploitation and mistreatment of the poor. This is captured clearly in his desire to keep control over his production, since he strongly believes that in the music industry, the producers normally make a large profit while the artist for who credit belongs, normally end ups earning peanut amounts at the end of the day.

His popular sediments are captured in his albums that include the revolutionary, both volume one and two, and the 3rd world and the middle passage album. the rapper is increasingly involved in prison visits and working with migrant rights activists, though which he speaks to youths and the unprivileged in the society trazer amor de volta. His investments are largely in farmland in Latin America, which like soweto properties is an unpopular investment option for many celebrity figures. His advice to the youth is not much on taking up an aacsb online mba or an online criminal justice degree, but rather it is based on exploiting ones talents and living soberly within the law.

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