Who in here doesn't "see race"?

[SetuT]

Yeah, genetically we're very homogeneous. Two snails who live on different sides of a mountain are likely to have more genetic differences than two people who live on different sides of the planet.

I think chimps are ready for chimp-racism lol.

[Bob]

Race doesn't exist. Humans cannot be packaged into discrete groups. Our physical differences are clinal to geography. Ancestry and race are not synonymous. CS, please refer to the Classification of Races.

The aim of this European derived system was to justify their oppressive regime, that is why natives were classified as Mongoloids like Chinese, while Ethiopians and Indians were Caucasian.

[Lost_Poet]

Im really new to the forum and this def caught my eye.   I tried to read as much as I could before I wanted to at least through something out there.   Much love to all of you for even bringing this up to see what others got to say.   

I'd like to begin with saying that many times, perception is everything.   
Some history:  Race is a sociological term created by none the less, a "racist" sociologist.   It came to fruition due to the history of the US and separation of color and/or oppression, colonialism, etc.   The same discipline that now has the "honor" of claiming this concept is also the same discipline that attempts to break apart the falsity of it and its negative affects that spread like weeds, hence race and ethnic relations concentrations in the discipline of SOCIOLOGY.   It is actually something that sociologists consider the worst "honor" to hold that they'd rather not be responsible for.   The problem is that once it was created there was no going back, especially due to the era in which it came to be.   No longer can we think that the concept of race will disappear unless everyone in the world ends up looking the same (not gonna happen any time soon anyways) and especially in the US, where we are bombarded with this concept ALL the time, even unknowingly.  By the time you become an adult, many become even numb to it and don't even realize they're exposure to it regularly (Test it out, count it for a week and do the math, you may be shocked especially based on where you currently live).   So perception now takes over and this becomes an issue not of whether you want to see it or not, but instead what you do with it.   

Human nature is complicated and many times baffling to the point that everyone's opinions are right, but human nature can be cruel.   Race was created out of cruelty and a need to justify cruelty.   Today, arguing over whether it is real is almost a mute point because people's perception holds a lot of weight and on the larger scale, most people view it as a part of the world, real or not, right or wrong.   So where do you go from here.   You do as someone in an earlier post did.   Acknowledge that others see it and attempt to make the change in yourself to dispell your own negative ideas about it and all that comes with it so that you can help someone else do the same.

Ignorance is not wanting to know more and asking the questions, it is not the actual state of not knowing.   Afterall, there is always something knew to learn. . .

I don't know if this post even matters to any of you, but I hope the little bit of knowledge I do have on this word helped even a little. 

Its def cool to see this discussion last so long. . . 

[piercehawkeye45]

I disagree. Racism will end when all races become integrated within society. That means the proportions of each "race" will be close to the same for every class or whatever classification system we use. I am almost 100% sure that isolation is the reason there is so much racism in the world.

[Bob]

Lost poet, race was created by scientists or to be specific, biological anthropologists. The concept of race initially had a biological basis, but was eventually no longer technically used. Immortal technique covers its so well in his recent piece, which I urge all to read.

The concept of race is perpetuated in the US, because of the hybrid nature of the nation. There is no way in hell that a German or Ukrainian would be classed as one in Europe. In fact, differences between Western Europeans are maintained till today. Race is just an addition to ethnicity, language, nationality or castes to break us into groups, and to further isolate ourselves as islands.

We're moving into an internationalist world. The last thing we need is another form division. You have people with curly hair, epicanthic eyes, light brown skin and a high nasal index, maybe even gray eyes, and they're more 'homogeneous' than African or Euro-Americans. What race do they belong in? I personally don't think they'd prefer to be classified, especially one that is used as a vehicle to promote stereotypes.

Sociology (or anthropology to be correct) does use scientific evidence. No longer can they use in that realm, unless the sociologist is trapped in the 50s. We should only have a racial system if it is more accurate than ethnicity. At the moment, it is not. If you check out the past threads, a number posted their own classification and what we saw was a highly subjective system. In my eyes, totally useless in a present context.

PS: Following a system with no basis what-so-ever is ignorant. Understanding its design profile is not.

[SetuT]

Following a system with no basis what-so-ever is ignorant. Understanding its design profile is not.

Yup.

[ineed<3]

wow they really think that africa's a country???

i found that as i grew older i kept noticing more and more division between different colours. for example when i first started secondary(high) school, i noticed how the older years were hanging around in groups of blacks, browns or whites.

[Bob]

C.Marie, black American is an ethnic group, not a race. In many regions in Africa, AAs may not even fit in due to different physical features of a "standard" AA. For instance, those in the Horn, many parts of the Sahel feature traits that could be seen as 'European'. In contrast, there are people in Australia, India, who may look even more "African" than them.

Yes, I'm generalizing the "West African" type akin to 50 Cent, but the sole reason why these traits are so dominant in the South and West of Africa is due to population dynamics. These Africans originating from around Nigeria were technology advanced which allowed for one of the largest migration since 4kya. To be blunt, its just colonialism by Africans, which is just as common as those initiated by Europeans.

This form of migration was very similar to the Western European migration into Canada or US, and hence proposing a black 'race' is as preposterous as an Amer-Canadian race. Even today, much of the region is diverse, phenotype and genetic, especially if you observe individual ethnic groups. If fact you can still find Khoisan people who resemble the "Mongoloid" (yellow) race.

My point is that the black race is null, but not due to the phene: black, but rather because its tied with race. In biology, one trait is not enough to suggest races (or sub-species), because the trait could have been a recent adaption. That is why several traits that differentiate between other sub-species are required. In and outside Africa, it lacks standard. Just because a W. European person doesn't have a broad nose, does not mean the trait is only black African. Introduce native from the Australian region, and can see individuals who feature the broadest noses amongst humans, but feature a 'brown' and 'yellow' profile. The development was a result of
 
This does not mean that African-Americans will not longer be Black. No, the term "black" is a phene, just like "blonde" (hair) and blue (eyes). One can considered themselves part of the 'blued eyed' ethnic group if scenario calls for such development. Introduce 400,000 blue-eyed Europeans into Greece 1500 yrs ago, and you'll probably see a similar situation develop where there is a socio-political disparity between both groups.

[RTSC]

Everybody is pre-programmed to racism.   It sucks.   The only way is to reduce it and try to cut it off.   I try fricken hard to remove it, its stupid, isn't anything but a cognitive short cut.   Thats what a pregudice is, physically.

[awatkins]

C.Marie, black American is an ethnic group, not a race. In many regions in Africa, AAs may not even fit in due to different physical features of a "standard" AA. For instance, those in the Horn, many parts of the Sahel feature traits that could be seen as 'European'. In contrast, there are people in Australia, India, who may look even more "African" than them.

Yes, I'm generalizing the "West African" type akin to 50 Cent, but the sole reason why these traits are so dominant in the South and West of Africa is due to population dynamics. These Africans originating from around Nigeria were technology advanced which allowed for one of the largest migration since 4kya. To be blunt, its just colonialism by Africans, which is just as common as those initiated by Europeans.

This form of migration was very similar to the Western European migration into Canada or US, and hence proposing a black 'race' is as preposterous as an Amer-Canadian race. Even today, much of the region is diverse, phenotype and genetic, especially if you observe individual ethnic groups. If fact you can still find Khoisan people who resemble the "Mongoloid" (yellow) race.

My point is that the black race is null, but not due to the phene: black, but rather because its tied with race. In biology, one trait is not enough to suggest races (or sub-species), because the trait could have been a recent adaption. That is why several traits that differentiate between other sub-species are required. In and outside Africa, it lacks standard. Just because a W. European person doesn't have a broad nose, does not mean the trait is only black African. Introduce native from the Australian region, and can see individuals who feature the broadest noses amongst humans, but feature a 'brown' and 'yellow' profile. The development was a result of
 
This does not mean that African-Americans will not longer be Black. No, the term "black" is a phene, just like "blonde" (hair) and blue (eyes). One can considered themselves part of the 'blued eyed' ethnic group if scenario calls for such development. Introduce 400,000 blue-eyed Europeans into Greece 1500 yrs ago, and you'll probably see a similar situation develop where there is a socio-political disparity between both groups.

you should really stop taking stuff way out of context.
Posted on: February 14, 2008, 07:31:57 pmi think everyone sees race

[Bob]

Awaktins, you are irrelevant.

[awatkins]

^ just giving my opinion, but seriously, look at my comment about you, take it to heart

[Bob]

You're not explaining anything, genius. Start explaining why I'm "taking stuff way out of context". These simple one liners are very annoying.

[awatkins]

for example....
-i was talking about how i care about unborn babies in the abortion thread, and you start to bring up the argument of sperm, who are "potential babies".
-i stated in some thread, that i am not proud nor ashamed to be white, and you start talking all technical about skin pigments and what origins are technically 'white'.

[Bob]

for example....
-i was talking about how i care about unborn babies in the abortion thread, and you start to bring up the argument of sperm, who are "potential babies".

Are you in another world? A sperm, a gamete represents human life. It forms 50% of the genetic make up of a human, but regardless is life. The only reason why a fetus is not considered human is due to the legal definition of human. The sperm could be classed as human life as well, and masturbation could be turned into a criminal offence.

-i stated in some thread, that i am not proud nor ashamed to be white, and you start talking all technical about skin pigments and what origins are technically 'white'.

I replied. It's irrelevant if you think you're white. Also the term "white" was explained in a technical manner versus Sativa, and must be explained clearly.

My point is what the "white race" represents today is far more than the phene that whites feature. The white race an oppressive race due to its monopoly over economic and political power. I am referring to the race, i.e. collectiveness, and now you, an individual life. Even if you were not racist, that will not result to the white race retracting from their position.

[awatkins]

^ my point exactly . i guess you can't help it, it is in your nature.

[Alloy]

Awaktins, you are irrelevant.

His point exactly. I guess you can't help it, it is in your nature.

[awatkins]

^you got major hops, you  jumped on that bandwagon quickly

[SetuT]

*jumps on the bandwagon*

Awatkin you suck man! Just sneak out if you're grounded you wuss!

*enjoys the ride*

[piercehawkeye45]

You are obsolete!

OBSOLETE! OBSOLETE! OBSOLETE!



Sorry, too much twilight zone.